Thursday, April 20, 2017
Greek Heroes?
Based upon our hybrid Socratic discussion regarding several Greek Heroes (Jason/Perseus/Theseus/Hercules), what patterns are you noticing? Do you now think differently about the labeling of a hero or heroine? Argue, explain, and defend. Please complete this blog response after our class discussion.
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I find the ability to call one a "hero" or a "heroine" has become something of an overused privilege. While many of the heroes of ancient Greece did share many of the defining qualities listed in the Heroic Code, a classmate made a very impressive comment in the fact that most of the heroes are, in fact, murderers, thieves and scoundrels! Heracles slaughtered his family, Theseus slaughtered the mighty Minotaur, and Odysseus blinded a cyclops before exclaiming how he had beaten the now handicapped creature. Greek Myths definitely capture humanity better than any other Pre-Christian theology tries, with all of the evils that fill the human and even divine heart.
The patterns I'm noticing is that each of the heroes are trying to redeem themselves from doing something that they regret. I think differently now about how the labeling of a hero or heroine by the people that our in our culture today that we call heroes that are not immortals. They live their everyday lives the way they want to live. In Greek Mythology, the heroes were given a second chance after what had happened. They would go through a lot of trials to try to redeem themselves for what they had done. In Hercules, he did his 12 labors which showed that he was redeeming himself for killing his family.
Based on the hybrid Socratic regarding several Greek heros, the patterned I’ve noticed was they all went on a journey to pursue self discovery. They all have strengths and weaknesses that are obvious and seem redundant, but they set them out from the rest. When they kill someone on their behalf they’re actions are justified as heroic in order to save a loved one or for protection. They undergo all these difficult trials that prove them worthy of their title. The text implies that mortals are weak beings in the eyes of the Gods, but once in awhile a hero appears to redeem their race.
A pattern I am noticing is most heroes/heroines have a brutal side in which they are given second chances and given chances to repremand themselves. The actions seen/taken by the heroes seem to be ultimately worth it whether they gained a positive outcome or redemption. A common assumption is all of the heroes tended not to be as violent as they were made out to be. Came as a shock to hear when they were praised as "heroes" after everything they had done. Opened up many questions about the human race and what the actual meaning of a "hero" was.
heroes continue to do what they're doing no matter who or what tries to stop them. This reveals a lot about the human race, in that humans tend to not give up easily, we keep pushing and trying. Heroes also have bad behavior sometimes, like Hercules killing his family. But they are still looked up to as heroes. This could justify bad behavior. I think heroes are usually labeled as good people who do what's best for mankind, but they're not always good people, and sometimes they are good people but they do some bad things that are looked over. Humans want to believe the good in people, so sometimes they gloss over the bad stuff and say that people are heroes even if they aren't.
Each of the heroes has demonstrated pompous attitudes as they waltz through life defeating bad guys. Each of them was on a quest of sorts to atone for their sins or take back a throne, but the reason for these quests were genuine human mistakes. Someone was trying to thwart their mission, leaving them with nothing, but the human spirit triumphed. The grit developed by each of the characters is something that humans connect with, struggle and the intense need to hold on.
Many of the heroes are a good representation of humanity in that humans as a whole have a rough history but remain to be a the dominating force of our planet. humanity has the ability of looking back in its history, feeling shameful and guilty for these things, and eventualy having an progressive view of the future. We can recognize he potential problems in the future and for the most part are able to work together to work towards a goal. A student in our class recognized this when he brought up how heroes and people both battles through adversity to achieve a common good.
From the Socratic seminar, I noticed that all heroes in Greek mythology that we have covered had all done things that they weren't proud of, and for some of them, it was their motive for going out and performing their trials. This observation made me realize that these heroes, though great and considered almost godly, were all simple human beings at one time or another. Each of these heroes had made mistakes and were forgiven for their wrongdoings. This shows that the Greeks saw that every human is human. Everyone makes mistakes, but the Greeks also believe that everyone deserves a chance at forgiveness. They just need to earn that forgiveness first.
Hero's are only a hero if the current culture says that they are.
the heroes in the texts all push forward and have to go through all these challenges and prevail. i notice how personal goals and selfishness takes over a lot of the gods and people who have to go through tasks. i personally hate it when people are selfish so i can somewhat relate to people choosing selfish things over important things and morals.
The pattern into all these heroes is, they don't give up and they try their hardest to succeed. They all get a second chance with their powers and get to redeem themselves. Without the gods and goddesses they would be more set back, they took advantage them but not in a bad way, they did it for their reputation or their family.
During our socratic seminar, our class came to the conclusion that the Greek heroes/heroines got a second chance even when they committed a serious crime, and even were rewarded through their second chance. For example Hercules killed his whole family but once he completed all of the tasks assigned to him by Hera he is seen as a Greek hero and is even granted immortality. It seems that in Greek myths if you commit yourself to greatness/success you will get rewarded even if you committed a serious crime. In my mind I don't believe that if you murder your family that you can never redeem yourself because they will never get the opportunity to live again. Also if you do this you should never be considered a hero in any circumstance because murderers will never prosper.
After the Socratic I realized how labeling a hero now is different then it was in the times these myths were created. There seem to be different criteria for heroism. One thing I would say is different it the fact that hero now show a lot of humbleness and don't always think themselves as heroes. In Ancient times, hero's were all powerful and they could do whatever they wanted jus because they did something great. In my opinion, the way we define a hero now seems more like what a hero is to me. But is that strictly because I live in the now and not in ancient times? Would my perspective change if I was born then instead of now. I will never know that. What I do know is that after our class socratic, I do not agree with some of the actions taken by ancient greek heros' because I don't see their actions as very heroic. Their actions after they are praised are superficial and they take advantage of the fact that they are a loved hero.
In the story's it says that these people are heros while next talking about how they murdered there entire family and how the betrayed someone. This isn't what heros are, in fact theses are the villains in the story's we have now. If the "hero" goes to unimaginable lengths for the "right" reason it doesn't mean they are a hero anymore. We have books and movies coming out each year showing us the villain. They usually have a reason, maybe there daughter was killed so they wanted revenge, or a company didn't listen to warnings and killed people with a collapsed building, the villain comes in to kill them but gets stopped by the hero, because the "right" reason isn't reason enough to go and murder people. Murder is murder no matter why you do it. And if you do it you get punished not celebrated, at least not celebrated by most people.
As far as patterns go, it seems that all greek hero's have made enormous mistakes somewhere in their lives. However, for some reason it's okay for them to, as they null it out with something amazing.
For example, Hercules, killed his entire family, then was created into a god by Zeus.
Greek stories are all about turning lives around, and getting from 0, to literal hero.
One pattern that I notice was lots of the heroes had a ton of second chances and I think that's a little unfair to other people but then again it is fair because everyone makes mistakes. Another pattern would be how in the end good things always happen at the end I guess that's why there heroes. I think if the mistake is bad enough then they should not get a second chance. Another pattern in these myths is theirs always a tragedy and what makes they heroic is they can get past that and complete the task in front of them. Heroes all relate in many different ways.
The writers crafted these characters to be purposefully flawed. I think that the reason that they faced these challenges is to put something that a normal human is going through more in perspective. See the corruption of a hero and learn from them and their mistakes on a much grander level than what one must be facing in their day to day life. A lot of the ideas in these texts about hero's talk about a grand journey that one needs to go on in order to find their identity. Many of the hero's are faced with trials and learn from their mistakes on the way, which is a very important lesson in day to day life. I think that if the writers were writing about these men today there would be a big difference in the details. But the overall theme of the hero's journey would stay the same. Overall, the hero's in Greek Mythology are important because we are able to connect with their trials and tribulations and see them come out as triumphant at the end.
I have noticed that most of these heroes have been sugar coated in main stream media- I have learned so much about Hercules particularly that I never knew. I think these heroes are described as almost god-like and it's as if they can do no wrong. I am in no way trying to diminish the great things that they did, those are important and they should be remembered for them. I am just trying to bring light to the darker things that these heroes did, in hopes of making them seem more mundane. They make very human mistakes, but these are often not as talked about. I think that the word Hero has so much meaning behind it, and has become very construed. These heroes should not only be remembered for their great triumphs, but also for their mistakes, the things that make them human.
The ability to call someone a hero hasn't changed but the definition of hero has changed more when regarding a Greek hero versus a modern hero. While modern hero are generally infallible and only make morally questionable choices when forced into a situation, Greek heroes very much believe that if you are a bad person than they can kill you such as when Jason killed every bandit on his way to Athens instead capturing them for trial or jail. This one sided and polarized perspective of the Greek heroes leads to a very different notion of heroism in the classic heroes' stories but despite this I don't think it is enough to completely change how I view/denote heroes and is significant enough to change whether or not I think the Greek heroes are heroes.
The classification of a hero is very interesting and there is a very high standard put on heroes in our culture today. For example when a hero makes a mistake in a plot or story line there are many punishments and they are often scorned and kicked out by their friends and they have to fend for themselves. I think that what we think of a hero today is a person who goes against crime and to fight for morals but in the text we do not really see this theme where the heroes are humble or even moral sometimes. I think that our heroes today, if they were in Greek mythology they would be directly opposing these heroes such as Jason, Hercules, and Theseus. I find it interesting that our definition of a hero is definitely a lot more glorified than it is in the text.
All Hero's are guided or punished by the Gods through their journeys, and what I noticed is that most of the heroes did great things by trying to redeem themselves because of terrible things that they have done before, like when the god Apollo told Hercules that he would have to serve Eurystheus, for twelve years, in punishment for all the murders, and as part of his sentence, kill all the 12 labors. And that example can be applied to other heroes myths as well, because most of them had a second chance that guided them to do all the great things that they did.
Our socratic discussion regarding several of the famous greek heroes has caused me to notice patterns within heroic personalities: excessive pride, ability to make quick decisions, and independance. Each of these traits are key to bringing these warriors through dangerous situations and battles. However, something not portrayed within today’s stories (such as Disney’s Hercules and Percy Jackson) is that heroes are often very flawed. These flaws are what make them human, setting them apart from the divinities that shape the world around them. Although their flaws are often extreme and very upsetting, it shows the difficulties of navigating a dangerous world within a normal human body and mind, often being played by the gods. These flaws also made these heroes relatable to the ancient greeks and made such amazing goals as navigating treacherous new lands seem somewhat more achievable to even the most normal peasants. Due to reading the real stories of each of these heroes, I think differently about the labeling of a hero or heroine- I understand now that these people that so many look up to are never perfect.
The main idea is the pursuit of the hero's home and willingly or not the hero is put to a test to prove themselves. They tend to lose family members at either their own hand by another's force or by another causing the hero’s families to be harmed or killed. But in the end there’s a happy ending for their suffering.
The writer seems to assume that the hero can only be helped by the divine to succeed and without the gods the human/demi god would never win or have a happy ending without them either causing harm to the hero or helping the hero. We as the readers tend to assume a happy ending will come to the hero and that no matter what the hero deals with we assume that they will overcome and win no matter what.
The conclusions is that no matter what suffering one faces the ending of the pain is the best ending you can have because it makes everything worth it. Whether it’s was for redemption or for love, or pride the pain that everything you face causes you, every scar, anything you lose is made up with the ending of your story. It gives you hope ev en if it’s not true for the world we live in now.
Almost all these story say about humans is that we have somethings better than the gods ever will because we have mortality where they do not, our suffering is ponent compared to theirs because what we have it a grave waiting for us at the end of the line and they can just fly off to heaven or use their powers to destroy whatever harms them. With that we are better than them, our suffering makes human and who we deal with that pain is what makes humanity so complexes.
If I was a hero I’d be an awful hero, if I killed my wife and kids like hercules I’d just curl up and die because I would assume I love her alot and I wouldn’t be able to take it. If I was odysseus I’d just leave the cyclope if i can or not scream my name aloud after escaping on the poor things fathers control, since I’m pretty sure my men would be loyal enough to know that I planned it and back me up if that was so important to me. With Jason I don’t think I’d be as stupid as him when handling Maeda and not make up promises that I can’t keep or won’t because she’s magic wendling women. Who you know can and will kill you if you hurt her in anyway. If I were Theseus I’d take the boat or if I went with the same path till I ended up with sadness and curl up in a ball.
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