Thursday, April 23, 2015
"The Iliad?" "The Odyssey?"
With reference to The Iliad/Odyssey, what did it make you
contemplate regarding archetypal patterns? Homecoming? Pride? The hero?
Divinities? Heroic Code? Guest/Host? Hubris? Other? Please quote from
either text or the video. Please complete this blog response during
class today.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
19 comments:
The Illaid/Odyssey made me contemplate is that the guest/host relationship was not very good. The guest and host treated each other very badly. Also, the homecoming is very important because the man who comes back from a long journey and is welcomed back with celebration but in the odyssey that wasn't the case.
Reading both the Iliad and the Odyssey made me think about the ego and pride of the heroes Achilles and Odysseus. They are both great men but they just don't know when to stop. Achilles is very hot-headed, because he doesn't forgive easily. And Odysseus is simply a pig-headed fool. But that is why people love him so much, because he represents the human self and Achilles represents the anger and stubbornness of humans.
It showed that the pride of Odysseus bragging about his name, and then Poseidon making his trip longer. It also showed the faith of the city where Odysseus came from, and how that had given up on him, yet his wife was still optimistic
The odyssey had major difference then the other myth we've read in class. First of all the text and the story itself is much longer then other myths. Odysseus is unique to other heroes because he relies on his wits instead of his strength. The odyssey focuses a lot on homecoming. Other myths are about going to a far off land to fight a deadly monster, but Odysseus just wants to get back to his wife and son. Although it takes ten years he reaches his home at the end.
Something that stuck with me regarding archetypal patterns in the video was the concept of homecoming. Even today, our school holds the homecoming dance annually, and when soldiers come back, they get a homecoming. This concept is truly an archetypal force, which transcends time and location. No matter who we are, we always have a concept of home, whether it be a physical house, being around family and friends, or something else that makes you feel comfortable and safe. This really is the essence of 'The Odyssey'. As the video said, "His homecoming is not the icing on the cake, but the cake itself." His coming home and reuniting with his wife is the climax of the story, not just something optional. Without it, the story would not be the timeless classic it is today.
Homecoming is a very important event for many people, especially when the journey had lasted for many years. I notice that Odysseus had a lot of pride at the beginning of the poem but towards the end of the story he lost some of it.
Within the stories of The Iliad and the The Odyssey the video we watched in class talked about the concept of homecoming and it's importance. The main thing I found interesting in the video was when they talked about the "icing on the cake" and it was worded as "the cake itself." In the book there is quite a bit of violence and discusses war and fighting, which in some cases could express the though of hubris and pride.
There was a pattern that tends to play out in many of the greek myths that we talk about and was also shown in this myth where the usual hero is on a quest and gets himself into a tough situation that stalls the quest then finally returns home. The homecoming was very big and eventful and there was a lot of pride from the accomplishments achieved. In the video they would say “That was an Odyssey.” and showed how big of a deal this myth was and what impacts it did have.
In Illiad, The Odyssey the video does an excellent job of showing off this guest/host relationship. It also shows greater detail with the cyclops and how they believe it was taken down. It also did very well showing off hubris and how he is blinded by pride. In The odyssey it showed multiple crisis situations that the hero's had to fight though to make sure their town was safe from any harm.
A lot of heroes have some sort of royal lineage, either to mortal kings of the Greek states or to immortal Gods who were seen as kings to all the Greeks. Hero don't come from humble beginnings, which leads me to wonder whether the Greeks base one's worth from their family name and who their father was.
The Odyssey had a strong sense of homecoming, which is understandable as the journey was so long but The Odyssey seems to put a strong sense of faith in Odysseus and his family and servants which leads me to wonder if they Greek people, even to this day, believe that families should be devoted to each others well being and need to be together even after a ridiculous amount of suffering and longing (like Odysseus' 20 years away from his family).
There's a lot to be said about pride in The Odyssey. Odysseus and his crew entered the cyclops' home expecting to be hosted, entertained and served when they had no right to expect such - one must be awful fond of himself to expect everyone to cater to him without giving anything in return. Then there's the well-known shout of credit that Odysseus gives to himself when he is safe from the cyclops, telling him "It is Odysseus who has blinded you!"
Its been discussed in class a few times that Zeus was an influencing force during the part with the cyclops and I know Athena makes a cameo further on in the story with representation with an olive branch.
The odyssey is like a persons journey through life with all its ups and downs. There is the gust to host relationship were you are expected if you are a guest to behave a certain way with dignity and respect towards your host. While your host is expected to provide some food and somewhere to sit. Also people fall to pride and did are star. This is showen when he yelled at the cyclops his true name.
I remember there were many instances of poor guest/host relationship. One example was when Odysseus and his men went to the cave of the Cyclops. They were not good guests, and the Cyclops was not a good host. Then, Odysseus show hubris as they are sailing away; he yells his name back and for that Poseidon is able to find him and hurt him. The men who seek Penelope, Odysseus' wife, do not show the proper respect for her as guests in her home. Odysseus welcomes his return to his home after many long years at sea. All he really wants throughout the journey is to return home.
The Iliad has so many god and man interactions. During the war between the Greeks and Troy, the gods and goddesses take sides and actually extend the battle. For example, everyone was prepared to go home after Menelaus defeated Paris. But Hera wanted Troy to fall so she used Athena to continue the war. There are many other instances in the Iliad of god interaction. The story says that "the gods were ranged against each other" (Hamilton 184). Each god was fighting for their favorite side.
One final comment on pride and hubris. The war between the Greeks and Troy began because of pride. First, Hera, Aphrodite, and Athena went to Paris so he could decide who the fairest of them was. He chose Aphrodite because of her beauty. Then, he takes Helen because of her beauty. This incites the Greeks to get her back. Paris begins the war because he is so self focused that he takes what he wants. This is an example of pride.
In reference to the Illaid and the Odyssey both show the typical pattern of hero's that show human nature but to the extreme, by putting them in moments where someone else might act different. A big topic that was mentioned was the idea of homecoming, after returning from a long trip it is expected to be greeted by your loves one and hoping not much has changed. But in the Odyssey we see this is not the case, Odysseus is not greeted by his love one or is home the same as he remembers.
The video that we watched in class on Tuesday, helped me to better understand the concept of heroes, and the guest/host relationship. In the video, they focused on the Odyssey, and the significance of heroes, and their pride. In order to be a hero, you must have hubris, or extreme pride, and the video did a good job of showing what that looks like. It also did a nice job of explaining the guest host relationship. It shows that it isn't something you choose to do, but have to do. Even if someone has treated you wrongly, if they're your guest, then you have to uphold the code.
This video briefly talked about identity in the beginning; the cyclops scene when Odysseus tells the giant that he is "no man". It talks about the importance of identity and knowing who you are. Odysseus was very intelligent and knew exactly what he was capable of. His intelligence is why the Athenian Greeks saw him as the greatest hero ever. On the other hand Hercules, was much different he wasn't smart enough to know his boundaries and that is why he ended up losing himself to rage. Overall, the Odyssey shows how identity is important to knowing what your capable of.
In Homers Odyssey there is a significant archetypal patterns which occur including a Guest/Host relationship, a crisis, and Homecoming. The Odyssey is the adventures as well as great obstacles that Odysseus and his men had to take to reach there destination of home. The trek that Odysseus had to take was supposed to take two weeks to reach home, but turned out to be a six year adventure that was aimed at getting Odysseus's mind off of home. During the adventure Odysseus came upon an island that was run by a Cyclops which attacked his crew and locked them in his cave. In the end Odysseus used the name of "no name" to trick the monster and escape with his crew. Lastly the crisis for Odysseus was almost loosing his wife as well as not being able to return home, because of the distractions including: monsters, gods and goddess's, and the length of time it took to return home it made his venture a crisis.
It made me contemplate regarding the homecomings for the heroes. The homecoming mean and was everything to the heroes. Returning to family, friends or even just a wife; coming back home after months or years was their culmination. I was "their cake."
The Iliad and Odyssey made me specifically question the archetype of the guest/host relationship. Generally, this is something that cannot be changed. It is a given in a story. However, in this, when Helen is taken from her husband, this relationship is blatantly disregarded, which was strange to see within a myth.
Post a Comment