Thursday, April 25, 2013
"The Iliad?" "The Odyssey?"
With reference to The Iliad/Odyssey, what did it make you contemplate regarding archetypal patterns? Homecoming? Pride? The hero? Divinities? Heroic Code? Guest/Host? Hubris? Other? Please quote from either text or the video. Please complete this blog response during class today.
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The video made me think of the archetypal conflict between fate and free-will and how it has always been argued about which one is more prevalent. Personally, I agree with what the video said about how each works, that both are used and both are in people's lives. As the video said, the gods were the stage crafters, but Odysseus played the role. "They [the gods] created the role, but Odysseus played it." The gods created all the challenges he went through, which is an example of fate, but he would not have been able to get through them without his own wit and decision making which is how free-will came into play. So I share my belief with the Odyssey that free-will and fate both have a large part to play in humanity.
One thing that stuck out to me was the difference between heroes and divinities in these stories. The Divinities are not e not considered as impressive as the heroes, because they do not suffer, die, or face challenges of any sort. Heroes at most have the help of being related to a god, or having a patron. They suffer and struggle to accomplish their goal, and it is much sweeter when they do.We cheer on the underdog because if there is no challenge the story is boring.
when the video talked about homecoming, and that people, even if they embark on a short trip they always look forward to coming home because it's familiar and just the feeling of being home is great. In regards to the Odyssey after his homecoming he shows pride, I find it kind of funny how he watches all these people try to string his bow and they cannot do it. The Marital status of his wife is at hand and because of his pride, he knows that noone else will be able to do so, and when that happens he steps up, strings his bow, then shoots it.
I think that the hero is an idea that is meant to be mightier than the gods because while the gods are very powerful they are immortal and anything they do will be done again. A hero,however, experiences every trial with an awareness of their mortality but they continue to fight because it is the right thing to do even though they could die. When a hero forgets that they are mortal they experience hubris and the gods take it upon themselves to remind them of their place. In the oddyssey all oddysseus wants to do is get home which is a humble wish. Other heros would want fame and glory but Oddysseus does not and I think that is because he has Athena guiding and helping him and she is the goddess of wisdom so the poem is saying that it is only wise to want what you have and not seek glory.
The idea of free will and the will to survive is what stands out to me the most from the Odyssey is what stands out the most to me. The Greeks always depicted the Gods as stage managers but in the Odyssey Odysseus can not be defeated by the Gods destruction. No matter what is thrown at him, Odysseus is able to over come and this is just a testament to his will to live. I think the will to live exists in all humans. It's what drives us to do and seek more within our lives. Odysseus is faced with many versions of death, whether they be metaphorical or literal, and he accomplishes each feat and moves on to the next without fear.The myth also shows the dangers of hubris. Odysseus is punished because he cannot stay humble. While leaving the cyclops' island he shouts his true name and the cyclops curses him. He was free and clear of the island but because he had to shout his name for recognition and the Gods punish that arrogance.
The Iliad or the Odysssey really relates to every relationship that exists in the Greek world. The Guest/Host relationship is shown when Odysseus and his men behave badly at Circe's table, so she turned them into pigs, since they are acting like them. Or the concept of homecoming is shown through Odysseus having to deal with all the trials and never giving up, and he makes the moment when he is home that much sweeter because he had never given up and always believed he would see Penelope again. "The gods are the stage directors, but Odysseus also survived from his intellect." I think that quote from the video is true because even though the gods are the directors of life, you can still decide your fate if you believe that you can, like how Odysseus did.
The Iliad and The Odyssey make it clear that most heroes are guilty of hubris. This quality is also a male dominated characteristic. An example of this would be in the movie when it shows Odysseus calling back to the cyclops his name. This is hubris because he is too prideful to not have people know he was the one who got away from the cyclops. It also pictures homecoming as very difficult but one of the most rewarding experiences after being away from home for a while. That is shown when Penelope and Odysseus finally see each other after twenty years of being apart. The story shows that divinities are very involved in the mortal world because of disagreements in their world. The example for this would be the judgement of Paris. Another idea that was greatly touched on in this story is the guest/host relationship. In most of the story Odysseus and his men are not good guests at all and are punished for their misbehavior.
The Odyssey displays a sense of self preservation, in that even though Odysseus is sent through many dangerous journeys by the immortal and powerful god Poseidon, he triumphs, and is still able to return home to his wife. He kind of seems like a hero, since he is prideful enough to mention his name to the cyclops, but his main incentive is not fame or glory, but to return home. When it comes to homecoming, his is not perfect, he has lost his entire crew, and ten years of his life, but the homecoming is still portrayed as wonderful, because it is the focus of the story, everything that is done, is done for the homecoming. This suggests that no matter how bad life is, the homecoming is worth it.
Both the Iliad and the Odyssey are both complex stories that get you thinking. At the beginning of the Odyssey, Odysseus talks about the star of his adventures and what people expect from him: "Men hold me formidable for guile in peace and war." He seems to agree with this statement and has no problem accepting hero status. His pride knows no bounds. Then watching the movie, it feels as though he tries to be humble, especially since he has divine help from Athena, but he still comes across as this guy who feels as though he is more powerful and important than given credit.
Both the Iliad and the Odyssey display the archetypal pattern of the influence of the Gods on the affairs of humans. In the Iliad the Gods divide and battle on both sides, the Greeks and the Trojans. In the Odyssey, the Gods tell Odysseus of possible future events so that he may decide his path. In both stories the Heroic Code is also displayed. Achilles and Odysseus battle to gain glory. Achilles possesses hubris in the manner that he drags Hectors body around the wall of Troy to earn revenge and display his conflict superiority. In the Odyssey, Odysseus raids the city of Cicones with his men with disregard for the innocent lives being lost. The guest host relationship in the Odyssey is poor. Calypso holds Odysseus captive. In the Iliad, the guest host relationship is strange. Achilles is not the host but he obliges to return Hector's body to his family. Both stories display multiple characteristics of classical Greek stories.
They talk a lot about how great the feeling is to return home after a long journey or trip. They say how nice it is to be able to relax some where they are familiar with.They talk of how the Greeks look up to the gods because they are human too.
Through this story, I really contemplated the idea of homecoming. In our world today, homecoming seems to just be an old high school tradition. But in "The Odyssey", homecoming is coming home from after a long war and time spent away from home. The idea of homecoming is fantastic, but why do we seem to treat anyone who is coming home as an outcast? The guest/host relationship is also on my mind. It seems like nobody in our world today follows or respects this code. Especially in "The Odyssey", the people who really should execute this code do not and they are punished for it. The ideas of homecoming and the guest/host relationship were constantly running through my mind whilst I read "The Iliad', and "The Odyssey".
In both the Illiad and the Odyssey the hero showed heroic code. In the end both stories came to the heroes fighting for a girl. She is the reason in both stories that the hero continued to pursue his goal. Also, the guest/host relationships were not balanced. Either the guest was not in line with the proper guest/host relationship or the host wasn't; both were shown in the Odysssey with the cyclopes and Odysseus. Both Hera and Athena were portrayed in both stories
One archetypal pattern that seemed to occur in this myth is the idea of returning home. Throughout the Odyssey, the continued pattern is Odysseus' desire to return home, like every great hero, and even every man desires that. The guest host relationship with Polyphemus shows that how many believe that a bad host may be punished as shown by the quote, "Ah well, if nobody has played you foul there in your lonely bed, we are no use is pain given by Great Zeus. Let it be your father, Poseidon Lord, to whom you pray. All in all the guest host relationship seems to play a major theme is they Odyssey.
In this story you see many current virtues and goals. The crazy treacherous journey we all go through with many rewards and deceptions, (Life) and we all have experiences the home coming we all wait for. This myth symbolizes greatly what Greeks considered about life and it's journey. It also addresses humanities intense pride in itself. Such as Odysseus and his Cyclops incident.
This myth, like many others was about the journey home. Instead of other myths like Jason, where he only completed quests to gain immortality, prizes, and wealth. Odysseus pursues his home and his loved one. This to him is what really mattered in life. This journey is similar to the journey that we adventure every daay. Our life is filled with many obstacles, like sorrow, sadness, destruction, and unltimatley in tthe end we are just trying to be around the things that we love.
The Iliad posed a lot of different questions and made me think a lot about homecoming and pride and all those. One thing it really made me think is that people are faithful. It takes a lot for someone to give up on something they love so much.
In both the Illiad and the Odyssey there is a recurring thought of homecoming. i mean the entire book of the odyssey is based on one hero’s journey home and his determination and perseverance through his set of challenges. As far as pride comes along it is everywhere. its a traditional part of human existence. we also see that even odysseus falls prey to hubris, especially when he has finally gotten away from the cyclopes he has to go and brag that he outsmarted the cyclopes and had to yell his own name to be known. he fell prey to hubris, or excessive pride.in the movie Odysseus tells the cyclopes that his name is “no man” so when he leaves after injuring his host, the cyclopes yells that no man hurt him.
The Iliad and the odyssey are both miraculous works of art that depict the great heroic adventures of the Greek Gods. Achilles shows part of the heroic code by slaying Hektor at the end of the Trojan war. Odysseus portrays the heroic code as well on his long journey back after the war.
the illiad and the odyssey are both fantastic works by homer and is usually referenced when talking about greek mythology
the iliad and the odyssey are both great works of homer dypicting the trojan war and odysseus' long journey
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