With reference to
The Iliad/Odyssey, what did it make you contemplate regarding archetypal patterns? Homecoming? Pride? The hero? Divinities? Heroic Code? Guest/Host? Hubris? Other? Please quote from either text. Please complete this blog response dueing class today.
21 comments:
The Iliad mostly made me contemplate hubris. The person who most exhibited hubris was Achilles. He was told that he could either stay in Greece and live an ordinary long life or go to war and claim fame as his name would be remembered in all history. This shows us how prideful and caught up in reputation the Greeks are. However, the Trojans display hubris too. Paris first chooses Aphrodite over Hera and Athena and when Aphrodite says she's on his side, he has great self confidence. He also took Helen from the king Menelaus. This can show that he didn't care about the effects of his actions but only cared about himself, showing pride and cockyness.
Pride is extremely important in both the Odyssey and the Iliad. The heros go on great adventures to go through and do many different things. Divinities seem to always be present when dealing with great heros. If they are for or against them is always changing. In the Greek culture the Guest/Host relationship is very prized yet in both the Iliad and the Odyssey they are not upheld. It can be anything from barging in and then being eaten to just out right fighting.
i think the poem is a great referance to greek myth and story telling all around the world. the poem talks about how war is hard for veryone not just the soldier fightiung the war "It broke men's heart spared not ship nor cable the time dragged" P189 i think this explains everything heroic code, gods, and just mans role in the grand sceam of things."no prayers from you to me you dog"
When reading "The Iliad" the text influenced me to think about heroes in relation to age and hubris. Before the war most heroes suffered from hubris, or excessive pride, like Achilles and most of the Greeks who wanted the reputation of being great heroes. However as the war ranged on, they lost the hubris and grew wary, making me think that hubris in heroes decays over time. An example of this is Odysseus, who wanted to go home but could not in "The Odyssey". While reading that it did not portray Odysseus as a hero looking for a reputation, but revealed his exploits in a somewhat reluctant manner instead of a glorified manner. Because of this, it seems that hubris dies in a hero over an extended time of glory, i.e the Trojan war, as shown to "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey".
I think if there's a message to the Iliad, it's that most rules or customs are obsolete during war. Take Agmemnon killing his own daughter for example. Or perhaps Achilles dragging Hectors corpse behind his chariot. Even before Hector died he pleaded, "Give back my body to my father and my mother." Achilles responded with, "No prayers for you to me, you dog." This just goes to show how warfare has no rules.
The Iliad displays remarkable amounts of archetypes throughout the poem that represents Greek mythology, for one, Hubris. Hubris is the classic Greek foil of excessive pride, the Iliad exemplifies this because most of the heroes that are fighting in the Trojan war are doing so for their own reputation or pride. The guest-Host relationship also shows up in the Iliad, but more for a Violation from what we read. Achilles violates the guest-host relationship because of his clear dis-respect of Hector's corpse, "He pierced the feet of the dead and fastened them with thongs to the back of a chariot and let the horses lead the way. Even in great victory, Achilles was brutal.
In The Iliad and the Odyssey we see that pride always comes before the fall. Achilles believed that nothing could stop him but he, the most protected was the one to die the most tragic death. His story teaches us to be wary of being prideful.
Hubris is a downfall of many heroes throughout greek mythology and is a theme seen throughout The Iliad. The welcoming of a hero, who reestablishes social order, is seen when Odysseus comes home from his long journey. It's very common that the heroes are brutal in their quests and often care more about their own reputation than winning.
The whole Trojan war is based on men trying to gain glory, honor, and fame. In the beginning of the war the great warrior Achilles is told that if he goes to Troy then his name will live forever, however he will also die. Many heroes on both sides valiantly fight on another for ten years. However the Paris who starts all of this doesn’t have to answer for his crimes. He cases all of the sufferings to be brought down on his fellow Trojans. Its his hubris and lack of Guest/ Host relationship understanding that causes him to upset the balance and set the war in motion. He doesn’t respect Helens Marriage to Menelaus and takes her with him on his way home. Later on in the story Achilles defiles Hectors body after he beats him. He drags the body around the city and then refuses to give it back for awhile. Because of the egos and hubris of the greeks and Trojans alike, they bring more and more suffering down on themselves throughout the Illiad.
The Illiad is an archetype for many different types of stories. Two of the most relevant archetypes in the Illiad are those of pride and of heroes. Pride is shown in this story in many of the characters actions. Achilles is too prideful after he is betrayed to continue fighting, a action that is repeated several times in modern literature. The Illiad is also an archetype for heroes. Many heroes are featured in the poem, Achilles and Odysseus being the main two. They also create the archetypes for heroes, one who is successful through force and the other through cunning. Clearly pride and heroes are examples of archetypes created in the Illiad.
The archetype symbols are seen through the armor of Achilles as well as his fighting abilities. I found it interesting that the divinities were involved. They take part in the war based on their own beliefs and there are even clashes amongst themselves. It was said that “Up in Olympus there was great dissension. This abuse of the dead displeased all of the immortals except Hera and Athena and Poseidon. Especially it displeased Zeus” (199). Hubris is also highly visible reflected by the great pride the individuals had. It was important to Odysseus to be known by name.
Pride is important in both the Odyssey and the Iliad. The heroes go on great adventures and face many challenges. Divinities always seem to be helping out the heroes. If they are for or against them is always changing and it impacts on the outcome of the adventure as well. In the Greek culture the Guest/Host relationship is very prized yet in both the Iliad and the Odyssey they are not upheld.
The Iliad very much so makes you think about homecoming and how important that can be. This is shown the most in Odysseus when he attempts to hide so that he will not have to go to the war because he is recently returned home and does not want to have to risk not coming back this time. There is a very large amount of pride in this story, many people might have not died if it weren't for that. The story made me wonder how heroic these heroes were and what really makes someone a hero. Most of the heroes in greek mythology are very afraid of death and try to run and hide from it. They often also think very highly of themselves and are still known as heroes even though this is not a very heroic thing. The Odyssey makes you think about the guest host relationship, mostly when they invade the cyclops cave and they completely dishonor this relationship.
What the Iliad and Odyssey made me contemplate the most was how fast the gods can change the fortune of humans on land. In less than a day some of the gods went from helping the Greeks to trying to prevent them from getting home. It shows how the gods constantly need someone to be angry at. At the beginning Hera and Athena were angry at Paris, then angry at the people of Troy, then all of a sudden angry at the Greeks.
I think the Iliad is a story based on hubris and overcoming it. For the majority the Trojan War, while both sides are fighting, there are individuals that are heros, and they know it. Both Achilles and Hector are unafraid to challenge anyone, even the gods. Achilles even challenges his fate, that he will die in Troy, and goes to fight anyway. Both sides are fighting brutal, arrogant fights, refusing to give in or offer peace. The Greeks overcome their hubris when they use their brains instead of brawn and create the Trojan Horse, which leads them to victory.
The Iliad to me displays Hubris. Achilles is given the option of staying in Greece and living a happy life or going to war and being remembered throughout all of history. It shows how prideful he was. Also when he dragged Hectors body behind his chariot it showed how his pride got the best of him and the hubris is shown once again. Also Paris shows Pride when he takes Helen from Sparta and did not care for what his actions would cause.
The Iliad has several archetypal patterns within it that were very apparent, one of these is the sacrifice of a family member to the gods. In the Greek Mythology that we have read up until now it has been made very apparent that you must not cause your family any harm. So this is a brand new idea that the Iliad brought up to the Greek Mythology.
When I think of the Iliad and the story of Achilles, I think of pride. His pride to accept death and still carry out his destiny really makes me believe that he is a true and prideful hero. Along with the pride comes the heroic code. I think that Achilles is the one legend we have learned about that sticks to the heroic code closer than any other. He displays more attributes than any other that we have studied.
The Iliad mostly made me contemplate hubris. The main person I think of Achilles, he goes into the war knowing that he won't make it out. He does this so that after he his gone people will still be talking about him. He also shoes pride when he drags Hector around behind his chariot letting pride get the best of him. Along with Achilles showing a lot of pride he is one of the heroes that fallows the heroic code we learned about the most. Is also shows that with hubris Achilles was more focused on his reputation than who won the war, along with many other great heroes.
In both the Odyssey and the Iliad, pride is very important. We follow many heroes through their journeys and learn about their adventures and challenges. Pride, however, seems to be most evident before the “fall” of a hero. Achilles, for example, saw himself as invincible, yet he suffered a terrible death.
In both the Iliad and Odyssey the hero's struggle getting home. The divinities are very apparent and sometimes help the heroes but other times they make the heroes journey more of a struggle.
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