Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Can We Contemplate "The Iliad?"
With reference to The Iliad/Odyssey Heroes video that we watched in class on Tuesday, what did it make you contemplate regarding archetypal patterns? Homecoming? Pride? The hero? Divinities? Heroic Code? Guest/Host? Hubris? Other? Please quote from any notes you captured.
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In the Odyssey, the Guest/Host relationship was very poor. When Odysseus came to the Cyclops' cave they started eating and drinking everything without the consent of the Cyclops. Therefore, it was a sort of Karma that happened to Odysseus and his men. The Cyclops began eating the men. Although, the Cyclops was a poor host as well.
In the Odyssey the guest host relationship is horrible because usually when going to someones house the host doesn't usually eat some of the guests and the guests don't usually sharpen a column and poke it in to the hosts eye. With this being said the guest host relationship is pretty bad.
In the Odyssey, only Odysseus returns home. This shows typical patterns of a hero: always being the strongest and returning home although the odds are against him. As people have also said above, the Cyclops shows parts of the Guest/Host Relationship that we have talked about it class. The Cyclops was a bad host, and Odysseus was a terrible guest by poking his eye out. The Illiad and the Odyssey display many forms of archetypal Greek patterns, especially in the Odyssey.
One thing that the video showed me was the pattern or archetypes. It's really interesting how so many stories that originated in different times or places can be so similar. Its interesting how all humans come to similar consensus about our world and how different cultures write such similar stories when most didn't have any connection with the others. It's also interesting to see how stories even written in the same culture are so different yet maintain the same general characteristics of plot. Learning about archetypal patterns made me contemplate how similar cultures really are and how most uphold the same if not similar moral standards.
Homecoming is a long difficult journey in the Odyssey but is one that comes with great reward. Odysseus tries to uphold the guest/host relationship with the cyclops but the cyclops does not uphold his part and instead begins to eat Odysseus's men. The divinities in this story seem to be jealous and very competitive and thus the reason that the Trojan War was started. Odysseus and Achilles are definitely heroes and follow the heroic code except in their pride. They are much more humble than most Greek heroes.
The Iliad portrays many of the characters in the light that they are seen by others by using archetypal symbols. Achilles has magnificent armor, which symbolizes his great fighting abilities. Also the witch on the island the Greeks sail to turns the men into pigs, a symbol of greed and gluttony. The heroes of this story are the best fighters. These great warriors are looked up upon and often therefore have been guilty of hubris, such as Hector or Achilles thinking they can win the war single-handily for their respective sides. It is interesting how not just one divinities takes a part in this war, but instead each of the major twelve gods has a stance on who should win, Trojans or Greeks, based off their own beliefs. This is unique because the gods do not interfere within human lives unless absolutely necessary; they often wish to find appeasement for some other action, and here many divinities are seen meddling within this human war and even fighting with one another.
In the Odyssey I saw many examples of hubris with Odysseus because he always wanted his name to be known, and he took great pride in having people, or monsters know who he is. In the Iliad the Greek divinities played a great role in meddling in the war. The gods seemed very human like because of their quarrels with each other, and their plots to help out whatever side they wanted to become victorious. I think that the gods interference was to show the Greeks the greater power that could be above them, and how that power could affect their life.
The Iliad/Odyssey talked about homecoming saying it was a very special and happy occasion to be met with celebration. Pride was a very important part of a hero's personality. The hero has to be a great warrior or logical person of reason(Achilles-warrior, Odysseus-logical). Divinities pick sides and act very petty and don't care about the humans(Some sided with Greece, others with Troy). The Heroic code is not always followed and is sometimes left behind entirely(Achilles stopped following it by the end). Host's are generous most of the time until their guests do something to upset them, when the host decides to turn on them, the guest rebels and it turns out bad for the host(The cyclops, the woman who turned Odysseus's men into swine, etc.). Hero's hubris can make them do stupid things that will always get them in trouble and make their journey harder.
The Iliad/Odyssey made me contemplate on the heroic code because the only reason the went to war was to find a girl the a Greek Soldier was going to marry when Paris of Troy took because he gave aphrodite the golden apple so he could get the most beautiful girl in the world and he did the went to war Troy and Greece and troy lost.
The Iliad/Odyssey is pretty much the basis for all of the characteristics displayed in other myths. Odysseus is a man with just a little bit to much pride and that is what ends up forcing him in waters where he really shouldn't be. The divinities play a large role in the fate of him and his crew, either blowing winds a certain way or forcing them to sacrifice men. It is a simple story of the quest that one man has to return to him homeland. The guest/host relationship was also played out in the movies. The cyclops as displayed as a terrible host to the crew and he pays for it with the stab in the eye. It is like an Greek form of karma.
In the Odyssey/ Iliad the heroes are very prideful. In the Odyssey the hero does not want to be remembered as "NO MAN" but as himself. The Guest/Host relationship in the Odyssey is destroyed because Odysseus pokes the eye out of the cyclopes after the beast feasted on his men. Odysseus continues to destroy the relationship by killing all the guest at his house that are trying to win his wife over.
The guest-host relationship in the Odyssey is very poor. The Cyclopes ate most of Odysseus's men and then Odysseus and his men took out the Cyclopes's eye. This is not a very good example of a guest-host relationship.
I learn from the Iliad/Odyssey Heroes video that people are very prideful. That seems to be the root of their downfall in many stories we have read. It is also shown that the gods control what happens to who. Everything is under control of the gods but the heroes are remembered because unlike the gods heroes suffer. Everything also must be balance for example the way Odysseus had to lose his man because he treated the Cyclops badly. When things are unbalance the gods tend to meddle in to re-balance life again.
I think that there was a lot of hubris in the odyssey with odysseus. Also the guest/host relationship was not very good at all.Both parties the cyclops and Odysseus's men did not abide by the guest host relationship.
I think the Illiad can show a lot about a hero. For instance, after the soldiers stabbed the Cyclops in the eye and escaped, Odysseus couldn't help but finally reveal his true identity, this is a great example of hubris. A definite motif in all the stories we've read about heroes is pride,and they all have a lot of it. The divinity intervention in the Illiad has also been interesting because Poseidon decided to punish Odysseus for having such arrogance. But at the same time, Athena helps Odysseus through his voyage.
In the Odyssey, Odysseus was a hero who had hubris. He was extremely prideful, which he expressed while sailing from Polyphemus' island. Odysseus' pride was angered Poseidon, who then would not allow him to reach home for many years. Odysseus' pride his downfall, as he lost every single one of his men on the return journey. Odysseus' homecoming lasted 10 years because he angered Poseidon. The guest/host relationship is not upheld, as the cyclops attempts to eat his guests. In retaliation, Odysseus and the remaining men almost poke his eye out. The gods become very involved in the Trojan war, which is very unusual.
The movie from Tuesday showed us the theory of cause and effect. Odysseus and his men entered the cyclopes cave and began eating his food. They didn't show any signs of regret for their actions and seemed shocked that the cyclopes would eat their men, when really the cyclopes was just getting back at the men. That happened because of their actions. Failing to see they were attacked because of that, they stab the cyclopes in the eye before leaving the area.
Homecoming is the ultimate goal of our hero's journey, to return home to his wife and kingdom. But before he will be allowed to return to his home he must face many a test and his long voyage would take him ten years. It would normally have taken him less than a month, but after outsmarting Polyphemus a cyclops and escaping his pride and ego gets the better of him he shouts his name to Polyphemus thinking he is out of harms way. He was wrong and Polyphemus calls out to his father Poseidon who makes the sea toss and turn making the voyage longer. It was his mistake of pride to a higher degree extreme pride that would delay his return home by many years.
This made me contemplate what it means to be a hero. Heroes make sacrifices, but we usually think of heroes sacrificing of themselves not of others. Homecoming is important because when a hero has finally finished all his trials, coming home is a big relief. A sense of achievement where they say to themselves "I made it". The Divinities make life for the hero both difficult and simple. They have this constant battle amongst each other for power and control. Unfortunatly humans get stuck in the middle of it because we are just pawns to be moved wherever the gods decide. Hopefully the God that is moving you the most is not one who will get you killed.
Odysseus shows heroic characteristics by yelling his name to the cyclopes who he and his men blinded as they sail away, and by being the only one to return home. Also when he strings the bow when no one else can pretending to be a beggar. I also think it is interesting how he is very humble which makes him seem more heroic.
what's the definition of odyssey,a long and eventful journey. In the odyssey, the guest/host relationship are not really good and the divinities concern about themselves instead of human. The women jealous each other and also the war start from the woman.The hero try to stand up and show themselves,the journey is hard and long also through the journey some original goal changed.
In The Iliad/Odyssey video clear patterns in the stories are revealed and demonstrated again and again. The video shows a poor guest host relationship as the guest of Odysseus and his men steal from the cyclopes and the cyclopes eats some of the men when in a perfect relationship they would welcome each other and be caring to each other wants and desires. Also, the Iliad had interference from all the main divinities like Zeus, Hera, Apollo, and Ares. Like wise during the Odyssey Neptune and a few other divinities had roles in slowing down Odysseus on his homeward travel.
I think Odysseus' pride got in the way of his common sense. He should have handled the guest/host relationship with the cyclops better but it seemed like he wanted to make the biggest impact that he could. I also contemplated homecoming in the Odyssey. It is a great part of the story. Its the ending that everyone wants to read.
One pattern from the Odyssey is that the hero is so prideful that after escaping the cyclops, Odysseus shouts his actual name to the cyclops so he will know who defeated him.
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